Episode 5: How to Find Wondrous Unconditional Love in Relationships

[00:00:00] Erin: Hi, welcome to Grounded in Love podcast. This is a podcast taking you through conscious living and loving. This is your host, Erin and Garrett. We’re here today to talk more about conscious relationships and to address some questions from several listeners about last week’s episode.
[00:00:33] Garrett: Yeah. Good morning. Doing this early today.
[00:00:36] Erin: We are. Hopefully, no one will notice. So I think we should take a minute to go over what last week’s episode was about. Maybe a quick summary, because our question was regarding the cutting board.
[00:01:00] Garrett: So, the cutting board example really was, I had a preference on how to do something.
And Erin wanted it done a different way. And so, to go back to that example, it’ll make more sense if you listen to the last episode, but to go back to that example, when I prepare food. I like to put my food on the cutting board and then eat my food and then clean the cutting board at some later point in time.
That’s my normal preference. For example, if I lived alone, that’s how I would do it.
Erin prefers to clean the cutting board and the knife, right away after she makes her food. So, it’s out of the way and done. And it’s a lot neater. It’s not just sitting out. So, one day, we had this discussion about the cutting board, where I had left the cutting board out, and Erin says, “Hey, can you clean the cutting board right away and not leave it out? Because other people need it, because it’s…” I mean, can you,
[00:02:09] Erin: Just because everything gets dried on there and I simply prefer not to have to really scrub away at the stuff. And so, if I needed to use it, I didn’t want to have to work hard to get all the little pieces off the knife and the cutting board.
I don’t think it’s good for a knife to sit with a bunch of stuff on it. Just little things like that.
[00:02:32] Garrett: Yeah. So anyway, I think that’s reasonable, of course. But when she asked me to do the cutting board in her way, I said, no, essentially. I’m going to eat my food. I’m going to enjoy my food.
And then when I’m done with it, then yes, I will get to the cutting board. But I don’t believe that the cutting board and the knife need to be cleaned right away.
That’s not something that I believe in necessarily.
[00:03:05] Erin: So, the question the listeners had was, what we had said was that I was attached to the idea that the cutting board needed to be cleaned.
[00:03:16] Garrett: Think it’s important to say why though, because when I said no, what happened?
[00:03:21] Erin: So I was slightly irritated, or I wasn’t, I don’t know. I was just like, what do I do now? Because I kind of thought, well, shouldn’t there be a compromise?
I had to sit there with it and be like, I don’t know that I like this. So..
[00:03:37] Garrett: I know she didn’t like it. She did not like I said no to this request. Because then she continued on as well shouldn’t this be something that we compromise on? I would like it done this way. You would like it done this other way, isn’t this a place where we, we compromise here? And if you aren’t willing to compromise, why? Why is that?
[00:04:02] Erin: Okay. So, so we’re going to get to the question.
[00:04:04] Garrett: Yeah.
[00:04:05] Erin: So the question was if Erin was attached to the idea that the cutting board needed to be cleaned or done a certain way, wasn’t Garrett also attached to the idea that the cutting board needed to be done a certain way? And I completely get that question. And I think today we want to explain that.
In that same explanation, we’re also going to jump into the idea of conscious relationships, because that is what we are exemplifying here.
It’s a new paradigm of what a relationship looks like. And so it may not make sense to somebody who doesn’t think in that paradigm or see through that lens.
Garrett, you want to take us through some answers to this, this question we have?
[00:05:01] Garrett: Yeah. I think the first answer is I could certainly be attached to how I prefer to do the cutting board. That’s not off the table.
I think when we talk about consciousness and growth as an individual person; we don’t look externally. We need to look internally. So, the question really isn’t who was attached and who wasn’t. It’s more can we see our attachments and what do we do about them once we see them?
So Erin’s attachment came from a place of slight irritation and frustration when she heard no from me about the cutting board. My response to all of this was completely neutral.
I simply was stating my preference for how I would like to do things in my life with no type of emotional response. I was not frustrated or argumentative. I just was telling Erin on my end of what I’d like to do.
So, with that, if I had gotten frustrated, or if I had felt defensive, then I also would have an attachment. Or maybe I could come from a place of something else that I struggle with internally, like being told what to do or some other things that I’ve struggled with in my life before.
That’s something that I need to see about myself.
Erin, on her end, needs to see her attachments about herself. So, in a relationship, we all have expectations and attachments that we’re working to unwind. In a relationship, you can let the other person have as many attachments as they want to, because it’s their life.
You can’t do anything about their life. All you can do is use these opportunities to see something about yourself and go deeper and uncover more about yourself.
[00:07:13] Erin: And so in this example, what I looked inward and said, why do I feel like this cutting board needs to be cleaned? I could come up with a lot of different reasons.
There’s an efficiency standard that I have that I was like, okay, everything needs to be done efficiently. Why sit and scrub stuff off when you could just rinse it off quick when it’s still fresh?
And then even deeper, I think, is the idea of how the house is basically something I’m in charge of. So this is a construct of what I’ve developed that I think that everything within this house is my control and what I’m in charge of. Because I have been a stay-at-home mom in the past, I have developed that idea that if things are a mess, if things are out, it’s my responsibility to make sure they’re put away.
It’s my responsibility to make sure that everything runs smoothly here. And if stuff is laid out, something needs to be done with it. And then I usually am the one that must take care of it unless I’m just asking everybody all the time, which comes out as “nagging” in this construct.
I’m asking everyone or I’m doing it myself, and then I get resentful and if I leave this stuff out, then I’m not doing a good job. And essentially, I’m just not enough. I can’t get everything done or I haven’t performed in how I want. I envision in this construct.
You can dig deep into a lot of different ideas that you have built into your head. About what should or shouldn’t be done. And it just comes out in things like these examples, like the cutting board.
[00:09:09] Garrett: Yeah it’s a simple example of a cutting board, yet it speaks to the depth of the expectation you have as a mother and as a family member.
And if you aren’t achieving those things, your expectations, then you’re failing. You don’t feel good about it. And now you feel you need to control that as well.
So, it’s amazing to see all the stories that you tell yourself that are just not true. Like most of the things you just told yourself are completely not true things you’ve learned or placed on yourself.
And now, this is why attachments are important to see or expectations are important to see. Because now your story you’re telling yourself is bleeding into the relationship that you have with your partner. You are putting expectations of yourself onto other people. And that is where things get very challenging in a relationship.
And in fact, I would argue most relationships between unconscious people are built on the other party having expectations of the other partner, and that other partner conforming to those expectations. Which we would call compromising in some ways.
Everyone has a relationship with their mom, or their brother, or sister, or their friends,
[00:10:41] Erin: kids,
[00:10:42] Garrett: or their kids…
It doesn’t have to be a partner. Think of what you expect out of them. And then think, why? Why do I have these expectations of them? Why do I expect my kids to behave in a certain way? Where does that come from? Does that come from some place deeper? That maybe I haven’t seen before? Can I explore that in a way to say, where’s that come from in me?
Because if you have an expectation of your kid’s behavior, that comes from somewhere inside of you.
[00:11:16] Erin: Mm hmm. Yeah, and that is the paradigm of a relationship right now. The paradigm is in a relationship you do things for the other partner and you compromise and that is the standard.
[00:11:32] Garrett: And that’s the norm, and that’s all, you know, yeah. But in my grasp of this, it’s unhealthy in ways.
It’s healthy to make relationships so that people aren’t fighting and angry all the time. But it’s unhealthy in a way because it builds more expectations of the person.
We have a great example of this. When we see somebody that’s going through a divorce, the divorcee is no longer tied to the expectations that they once had of their partner. So the partner asks for things from the other person who is divorcing them. They’re asking them the same things that they used to ask them in a relationship.
And that other partner has no tie to fulfilling those expectations anymore. And that drives, both parties, through a divorce crazy because how they used to have established some kind of control because of this glue of a relationship is now gone. And so, they aren’t conforming to the expectations that they once did in a relationship and now both parties don’t have any control anymore and it creates all the stress of a divorce.
It creates all the stress of breaking off a relationship. So, do we want our relationships to be held hostage to just simply being married or being together with someone?
Or is there a way to have a relationship where we can completely feel comfortable with ourselves? And not have the expectations of the other person, and instead of those expectations, replace it with complete love, gratitude, and joy of just being around the presence of that individual.
[00:13:30] Erin: Right. I think relationships over the years have changed and evolved so much. If you look at, let’s say Maslow’s hierarchy of needs in the format of a relationship, in the past, you would only need the physiological, the safety needs met. But over time, relationships have really been built into something where you’re looking for belonging.
You’re looking for love, all of these higher needs. And you expect so much out of your partner these days that they need to fill in all the things about you. They’re fulfilling your needs. Your needs for belonging, your needs for everything. And it’s just, it will not work.
[00:14:28] Garrett: It won’t work. I mean, it will work as long as it works.
[00:14:31] Erin: Yeah.
[00:14:31] Garrett: And I think there’s a book called The All or Nothing Marriage that we’ve talked about before. It just popped into my mind. I can’t remember who it’s by, but it’s about the idea that partners are expecting the other partner to be everything to them.
To be their best friend. To be their lover and romantic partner, to be their support, to be the father or mother of their children, which really just says how empty the person feels inside, and they need these external things to fill them up just so that they feel okay.
And we don’t need to be that way anymore. We can change that because those things are not true.
[00:15:13] Erin: Right, so you can imagine how much dissatisfaction and disappointment is going to occur in these marriages where we’re needing somebody else to fill us up. To fulfill us to be our…
[00:15:31] Garrett: champion for everything that we need.
[00:15:33] Erin: Yeah. You see that in the divorce rates, obviously.
So, that’s why we believe the new paradigm of a conscious relationship is one where we come into the relationship with a growth mindset for ourselves. So that when we’re in a relationship, we’re looking at the other person and when things irritate us about that person or about something instead of looking at them with the blame and asking for compromises…you look inside and you say, why does this irritate me? What is it about this that I have built an idea or a construct that it’s not okay. And is it something that I can let go of?
[00:16:22] Garrett: The conscious relationship paradigm, technically there is no real conscious relationship. There are two people that are striving to live more consciously, individually, and those two individuals are in a relationship with one another.
So what Erin talked about was the look inside personal growth. That’s what both parties are committed to doing in a conscious relationship.
And with that, it creates different ways to work together, to have conversations and communicate. Where we are so much less defensive with one another. We can really listen and hear the other partner as opposed to hearing some kind of gripe and then immediately putting our walls up.
[00:17:19] Erin: Yeah. I have an example of that idea of listening to your partner.
Essentially, even in a conscious relationship, we’re both living our own kind of movie. I live my movie. Garrett lives his movie. Which is just all our constructs, all our things that we’ve learned through life. And it’s our perspective. It’s our lens. It’s the way we see everything every day.
And we’re each walking through life, living our own movie. So when something happens, and he wants to talk to me about something in his movie, I may not understand that. So I have to take a minute and step inside his movie to fully understand it.
To actually be present and say I’m going to listen to these…all the story. Everything he’s going to tell me and really take it in through his lens rather than my own. Then I went to first reflect and make sure I got it right.
So I’m going to say, “Hey, this is what I’m hearing from you.” And then I’m going to validate it and say, gosh, if I was in that situation, I would feel that way too. That’s really hard or whatever it is.
And so, in this relationship together, we live our own lives. We’re not looking to fill each other. I’m not looking to validate him so that he feels like he is a whole person or anything like that, but I am going to understand his experiences to truly see it through his lens and then, give him the support that he may need for that situation.
So we still are in a relationship communicating. We’re doing all the things, but he doesn’t need to be filled by what I do, and I don’t need to be filled by him. But we’re going to be there to support and love one another.
[00:19:24] Garrett: And I think no matter what, in a relationship where we’re both committed to being more conscious and present, I think that we’re still going to have the stories that we tell ourselves.
We’re still going to have the things that come up that bother us. And when Erin’s talking about stepping into the movie that Garrett has, she’s talking about stepping into the story that Garrett is telling himself. And that story may be false, but when the partner is in that story, and they are out of the present moment, then the only thing for the other party to do is to sit there with them while telling that story.
And as Erin said, we reflect on the story. This is what I’m hearing from you, and we validate to say I understand that’s how you can feel in this situation. Because you can understand how someone can feel in any situation if you realize it is all a story that they are telling themselves. Based on everything they’ve learned and everything that they’ve felt up to that point in their life.
And everyone has a story. And that’s where compassion comes in, right? That’s where we…
[00:20:45] Erin: can be
[00:20:46] Garrett: can be empathetic to understanding that everyone has these stories. And so when somebody approaches you with something that could be triggering, if you can see that trigger and you can see it in yourself quickly, then you can eliminate the trigger.
You can breathe, ground yourself, be more present again to let that story in without making it feel very emotional to you.
[00:21:14] Erin: Mm hmm, and I have my truth about whatever and Garrett has his truth. And it’s saying that Garrett’s truth is just as valid as my truth. So whatever situation he’s going through, if I wasn’t stepping into his story, I wouldn’t see.
I might think that story wasn’t true. It wasn’t okay. And try to talk them out of that or whatever it is.
[00:21:41] Garrett: Would you say that’s a judgment?
[00:21:43] Erin: Yeah.
[00:21:43] Garrett: The truth is you don’t need to be anything, do anything, have anything, or wish for anything.
You don’t need to feel anything. You can be exactly as you are at every moment of the day. And that is absolutely perfect. That is what unconditional love is.
I think it’s important to bring up in relationships, because most of our relationships are structured on the concept of conditional love.
[00:22:14] Erin: Absolutely.
[00:22:15] Garrett: So when we talk earlier about the compromises that people are making in relationships. In some ways, you can say that is conditional love. It is based on if you do these things, I will continue to love you. But as soon as you stop doing these things, I am going to take some of that love away to show you that you need to do these things a certain way so that you can continue to have my love.
So unconditional love, of course, is love without conditions. I think most people know that. But when you have any conditions for someone to love them, whether if it’s your kids, if it’s your parents, if it’s anyone in the world, if you have conditions in which that you love them than that, of course, is conditional love. And 99.9% of the love in the world today is based on conditions.
[00:23:12] Erin: I would argue that people think that their relationships with their children are unconditional love. When you said 99. 9% of love is conditional…well, I think that there is, difference between parents and their children.
[00:23:34] Garrett: I think that most parents like to think that. I’m not bought into that idea.
Because I would ask, Mr. or Mrs. Parent, what do you do when your kid misbehaves? Do you teach them that love can be taken away?
[00:23:55] Erin: I see that.
[00:23:56] Garrett: When they misbehave, are you calm and have natural consequences for them so that they can actually learn what is going to happen in this scenario or do you take it upon yourself as a reflection of you?
Of I’m not doing enough as a parent. I’m going to teach this person to grow up to be enough for the world. Like those are all coming from places of the depth of conditional love.
So I think that maybe a parent may have a deep level of unconditional love for their children. But daily, they take little bits of love away as they learned somewhere along the way for themselves and their own patterns.
So, I think that unconditional love exists. It exists for your kids. It exists for your partner. Sometimes you feel unconditional love for them.
Often, you do not unconditionally love your kids or your partner or the world or society at large. You all want it to be different, and judgment is the opposite of unconditional love.
If you have any judgments, you know you are not in a place of unconditional love.
[00:25:24] Erin: Yeah. So, our relationship, we are really working towards this conscious relationship. But I want to ask you when you, when we first, unattached from one another, what did that feel like? What was that like?
Cause I know for me, it was kind of strange.
[00:25:43] Garrett: Yeah. So what happened was I had this journey, awakening, whatever you call it, I clearly felt unconditional love. That’s where it started, essentially complete unconditional love. And I was like, wow I don’t need to be the person who I always thought I needed to be.
And there was this massive shift of just letting that ego go. And the ego, of course, comes back over time and you must work with it because it’s not just
[00:26:18] Erin: part of you as
[00:26:18] Garrett: part of you. And to keep it in alignment, it takes some practice and seeing different things. But the ego just kind of went away for a while. And it was like, whoa, I can see that I was always acting with an ulterior motive in my relationship with Erin. And that ulterior motive was essentially selfishness. I needed things done a certain way, so I felt okay about the relationship.
And I was attached to that in the relationship because that’s what I expected out of the relationship. So when I had this ego shift, and had that taken away at least for a good amount of time, I could really see wow my relationship with Erin was always based on this construct of conditional love, selfishness, and needing to have things or do things a certain way so that I was just good enough. And so detaching from that, I remember telling Erin exactly what I just said, and she was crying because it was hard to take in.
I mean, maybe you could talk to it. Do you remember that?
[00:27:37] Erin: I do in some ways. I think that it’s very confusing because I’m like, you’re taking my love away. Like the love that I knew, you’re taking it away. And for me, it felt hurtful.
[00:27:54] Garrett: Right, right? Because the love that you were used to was conditional love. And now I was basically saying, I can’t give that to you anymore. And you’re like, that’s very scary. Because you’re like, well, what does that mean then? Conditional love can be very pleasurable.
[00:28:13] Erin: Because I felt like, when I also could detach from you in certain ways, I felt like I lost pleasure.
[00:28:22] Garrett: Yeah, because it can be a source of how we validate one another.
You can use it as a tool to get what you want out of a relationship. And again, these are all based on things that are conditional. They are ways of loving someone conditionally and they are not healthy for relationships.
[00:28:45] Erin: Right. Not having the pleasures in the relationship is because you’re not fulfilling those conditional pieces. You’re not willing to validate their stories as much.
[00:29:04] Garrett: And it’s tough because just like any pleasurable thing, when you are done with that pleasurable thing, you want more of it.
So if the partner comes to you and is like, “hey, I can’t do this anymore for you. I just can’t do it.” That’s very crushing to the person who’s hearing it
. Especially if they’re not conscious in a way. And that’s why when people have these kinds of awakenings our mind shifts of who am I really?
Am I really the person I always thought I was? It’s just an identity, and they explore their mind a little bit more.
That’s where some relationships break down. Because you don’t interact the same way with your friends anymore. You don’t interact the same way with your partner anymore or with your kids.
And for that other person, it can be very shocking because you aren’t giving them the things that they expect out of you anymore.
[00:30:04] Erin: Yeah. It can be really challenging and maybe that’s something we can explore more of sometime how to navigate that, you know?
[00:30:14] Garrett: Absolutely. I think that a lot of the times when we do the podcast, our listeners say, well, give me something where I can, you know, take these principles and apply them directly to my life.
And although I think we have given some examples over time of how to do this… I think the moral of this story is always looking inward instead of outward.
It’s always taking the onus and the responsibility back on yourself. To see things and to grow. And it’s not looking outward to society to help you feel or do better things.
So whenever you get caught up in a moment where you’re blaming other people for whatever’s going on, try to see that is not really what’s going on.
There’s something inside of you that’s triggering that thought. And it has something to do with you that you can change about yourself.
I think conscious relationships are the healthiest relationships that you can be in. That you can have.
Sometimes you are with somebody that’s also very conscious of their thoughts and actions and is also willing to grow. Sometimes in a relationship, one person becomes more conscious, and the other person doesn’t. And that can be very challenging in the relationship itself. And sometimes you don’t have a relationship with a partner, but you have relationships with your coworkers or your kids or your family members.
And these things can be seen as a way for you to develop your ability to be unconditionally loving. And I think that is all that there is in this world. Is trying to uncover how to be more unconditionally loving as much as possible.
[00:32:19] Erin: All right. I love it.
[00:32:21] Garrett: Thanks again for listening. Rate the podcast if you haven’t, either on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get it.
If you have friends that could listen to it, and it might help them, and they come to mind, please share it. It really helps.
[00:32:34] Erin: Thank you.